Recent anti-Trinitarian questions have stated that the early Church did not believe in the Trinity. If that is your position, how do you explain these early Christian writings, some about the second person and some about all three persons of the Trinity?

1. Justin Martyr referred to the deity of Christ so often that space does not permit the reproduction of his statements here. But this statement of his sums it up succinctly: “We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God Himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third.” This is a clear description of the Trinity.

2. In the Huleatt Manuscript from 50 AD is found a description of Mark 14 (where a woman pours perfume on Jesus). It says “…But, when the disciples saw it, they were indignant…. God, aware of this, said to them,: “Why do you trouble this woman?’” Jesus is the speaker about whom the writer says, “God … said to them ….”

3. The letter of Barnabas in 74 AD says, “And further, my brethren, if the Lord endured to suffer for our soul, he being the Lord of all the world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, ‘Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness,’ understand how it was that he endured to suffer at the hand of men” (Letter of Barnabas 5).

4. In 140 AD, Aristides wrote, “[Christians] are they who, above every people of the Earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit” (Apology 16).

The list goes on and on, but nobody likes a lengthy question and this one’s too long already.
Father K: I saw that in one of your questions and was astonied, if you know what I mean. :-)
Q&A Queen: I have read the Bible and there are a number of places that prove Jesus’ deity. My personal favorite is John 8:58. If you know your Bible, you’ll know exactly what it means.

58Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Dewcoons: Thank you and I completely agree with you. However, the question has been debated ad nauseum with regard to scripture. The recent attack has been on “early writings.” This question addresses those early writings. Why does everyone assume that because I’m asking about early writings, I have not read and believed the Bible?
TeeM: (a) You’re quoting people who gave their opinion ABOUT Justin Martyr, etc. I went to the source. (b) I’m an editor, so I understand English grammar. But the Bible wasn’t written in English. English grammar does not apply.
Tzadiq: Yours is a really interesting answer. You believe in God. You believe in Yeshua’s deity. But you have a problem with The Spirit of God, named in Genesis 1:2, Judges 3:10, Judges 6:34, Judges 14:6, 1 Samuel 10:6, 1 Samuel 16:13, Ezekiel 11:5. Most people who deny the Trinity, deny Yeshua, not the spirit. Interesting.

This is a question from something that came up during an R&S forum at my University, where I was one of the 3 people who gave a speech.

The speaker from one of the many Christian groups at our school said that any non-Christian would not even want to find themselves in the Christian Heaven.

(He was saying this in defense when someone said “Why are Christians so concerned with getting non-Christians into Heaven?”)

The speaker said that Heaven is a place where you completely acknowledge Christ as your Lord and Savior and you devote the rest of eternity giving all of your soul to Christ in Heaven. Therefore, any non-Christian wouldn’t want to be there anyway because they would not want to give their soul to Christ for eternity. He said that Hellwould probably be a more likable place for non-Christians because they are not told what to do for eternity…but they can never be one with God in Heaven, so ultimately they are missing out.

What are your thoughts on his statement?

Hank Hanegraaff calls himself the “Bible Answer Man” and appears very authoritative (his slogan is “Because Truth Matters”). On his radio show 8/1/08 he brought up “bacterial flagellum” as evidence of design in the universe. But it is widely known that this argument was demolished in the 2005 Kitzmiller v. Dover case (in which the judge concluded the ID proponents were lying). On youtube you can easily find** Ken Miller (a real scientist) explaining why it doesn’t hold up (he was an expert witness in the case).

Then I heard another speaker (Mike Kestler, I think) where he documents an “actual case of someone surviving being swallowed by a whale” (James Bartley). But after a quick search, I find this story is apocryphal*** (e.g., no records of him on the ship named, the ship was not a whaling ship, the captain’s wife admitted it was hogwash).

I see this over and over again. Can someone tell me: have these people lost their moral compass, or do these experts not know how to use Google? What is going on?

To Dee:
These people *are* spokespeople of the church. Christian radio station owners hire them, Christian listeners give them money, Christian sponsors run ads during their shows. In addition to my original question, I have to wonder why Christians don’t in general weed these “false teachers” out.

The most common response to non-Christians asking Biblical questions is that we take scripture out of context. Meaning, we don’t pay attention to the critical “who, what and where” of a scriptural quote, so we don’t understand the speakers message. Women speaking in church, or Jesus bringing a sword and setting family members at war against each other, are common examples.

However, when Christ gives the “fig tree” speech, telling those people in front of them that THEY will see certain things happen, and know that when THEY do, it will be the time of his return, all context is thrown out. In context Christ is speaking to a specific group of individuals of specific generation. Yet the entire Christian faith is based on taking it out of context, and interpreting it to mean some other people of some future generation. He doesn’t say “if” they see those things happen, he says “when” they see those things happen. He doesn’t say “they,” (some future generation) he says “you” (the people standing in front of Him). Why is that?
Very dissapointed, but not surprised, inthe lack of Christian response.
So, Marvel you agree that the entire Christian faith is based on the false claims made about Christ’s return?

Sorry to Christians, however, amidst a lack of proof of God, ministers who only want money, judgmental congregations, ad fake happiness. I wanted to comment on a subject that bugs me horribly. Now, looking and questioning my religion that affected me for the first 30 years of my life, I see I am no better off than others. I see people brain-washed and mesmerized by influential speakers. I see people spurting out quotes written by “men” (not God) in a book not in touch with our times. I see fictional tales to teach weak-minded people morality. I see good men change their own lives for the better and instead of patting himself on the back, he thanks God. God, in my mind, seems to be what people would psychologically call a portion of themselves that wants better and improvement. I feel God is just a way to access strength (psychologically)when some may perceive they don’t have any. By the way, I also have a problem seeing others give to a church who has money for their bills when these same people can’t make their own bills. Lastly, I’m tired of ignorant people (close-minded, uneducated) telling me about the invisible man, and how he died for my sins, and how he watches when I do something wrong, and telling me how to live. It’s like getting investment advice from a homeless person.

I’m wondering if anyone else has been converted to think for themselves and take a stand against old world thought. I have watched myself, through the years, go through denial and fear over my thoughts and questions, to dabble in other philosophies, to standing outside the Christian groups and seeing how naive a lot of this scripture-quoting sounds. Anyone like to add their two cents? I am curious to hear from other converts, and maybe some love. Christians, by all means, bash away, that’s what Jesus would do, right?

We’re now going to broadcast Christian music (1 cd per week) over the telephone system’s speakers, and we’ll no longer be playing out personal radios in our offices. This is a Human Resources company, with absolutely no religious affiliations whatsoever. Is it legal for my employer to force the whole staff to listen Dove Award winning Christian R&B for 37.5 hours per week here in the USA?
It will play over the telephones so that it can be heard in the office when that phone isn’t being used.
Even though we’re an HR company, we fired the last person with an actual HR degree because she kept telling the owners what they could, and could not do. So, NO, we have nobody left who knows the actual HR laws we’re supposed to be experts in.

I go to a Christian school and we have a chapel every week and there are always people performing Christians songs before the speaker comes and speaks. I haven’t seen anyone perform a guitar solo during a song, but that may be because they aren’t quite up to that skill level yet. I am just wondering if some people might think it would be taking the glory from God and putting it on myself. I would like to think I am giving more glory to God because I am displaying a skill that he has given me, but some people might think otherwise.. What are your thoughts?

Can you cite any evidence recorded online?

Yes, I realize that this outspoken and popular Christian Evangelical anti-evolution speaker is in federal prison at present but I’m asking about his long-term ministry (which I assume is still operating through the help of his son and wife while he is in prison.) I had never heard anything about him being anti-Semitic so if this is just nonsense concocted by his critics, I would like to know. (Otherwise, it gives me yet another reason to consider his “ministry” mostly nonsense.)

Christian Entertainment…Help?

Ok i’m hosting a christian youth event ages 14-21 and its a weekend event i need great chirstian guest who are entertaining…previous years i have had comedians and insprational speakers any ideas

I just don’t understand they tolerated a witch (this woman was something like wiccan i believe) coming into my child’s school, which i raised no objections to, but it was a problem when i suggested that a speaker come in to talk about Jesus. You thought I was going to get these people fired when I mentioned jesus.
And just to clarify the wiccan was talking about her beliefs. Something about fairies and their ilk. Really couldn’t get it. that came from my child.

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